Session Start: Thu Feb 06 22:06:52 2003
Session Ident: #dbviz
[22:06] * Now talking in #dbviz
[22:06] <SandraFaust> Hi, Ross. :)
[22:06] <_Ross__> sid and I got bumped a minute ago
[22:06] <Sid_> Ugh. Wonderful way to start off...
[22:07] <sobby> hey there...
[22:07] <udaykale> hey guys
[22:07] <Sid_> Test plan.. We're going to need a test plan...
[22:07] <SandraFaust> yes
[22:07] <_Ross__> and a way to test our test plan!
[22:08] * brians has joined #dbviz
[22:08] <_Ross__> ...but who will test that!!!
[22:08] * Sid_ slaps _Ross__ around a bit with a large trout
[22:09] <SandraFaust> we already started with the flying trouts, didn't take long.... ;)
[22:09] <sobby> yup
[22:09] <Sid_> We're waiting for... Larry.... Umm.
[22:10] <Sid_> Alright, Schoudel. First thing you gotta do is update the web site so I can cheat to figure out who's in the team. =D
[22:10] <SandraFaust> and somebody else
[22:10] <_Ross__> and Jim
[22:10] <SandraFaust> Hey, I can still be the backup webmaster if that's ok with Brian
[22:10] <Sid_> Yea! Jib.
[22:10] <Sid_> jim...
[22:10] <sobby> this is the first meeting so it'sfine but i think we need to have an agenda..
[22:10] <Sid_> I have an agenda.
[22:10] <Sid_> I jsut haven't shared it yet. =)
[22:10] <sobby> tell me
[22:11] <_Ross__> All hail Sid Ceasar!
[22:11] <sobby> oh ok :)
[22:11] <Sid_> Hehe
[22:11] <Sid_> Well, let's get started. 10 minutes late...
[22:11] <Sid_> Ok, notice to everyone. If you're late, you arent allowed to complain if we stick you with sucky tasks.
[22:12] <Sid_> First off, everyone welcome to the team.
[22:12] <udaykale> thanks...
[22:12] <Sid_> Umm, for some... again. =)
[22:12] <SandraFaust> somebody needs to start the log
[22:12] <SandraFaust> (trying to figure out how to do it)
[22:12] <_Ross__> *presses finger against nose*
[22:13] <Sid_> I have a log running. I'll share it with whoever we elect to be whatever we call em.
[22:13] <Sid_> One should be Larry or Jim.
[22:13] * Sid_ grins.
[22:13] <brians> give them the sucky tasks, ha ha
[22:13] <Sid_> Well, also to encourage one to come.
[22:13] <Sid_> I'd do both, except then we'd have no loggers this meeting.
[22:14] <Sid_> Ahh, the official name I gave them was Recorder.
[22:14] <Sid_> So, first item. Who wants to be a recorder?
[22:14] <Sid_> The duties include:
[22:14] <Sid_> Figuring out how to take a log of the weekly meetings, every week.
[22:14] <Sid_> Writing up a summary of the meeting
[22:15] <brians> sending them to webmaster
[22:15] <Sid_> Sending the log and summary to the webmasters.
[22:15] <Sid_> That's it. Not tough. Just requires that you come on time.
[22:15] <brians> and send to webmaster in nice html
[22:15] <Sid_> Is that part of it?
[22:15] * Sid_ shrugs
[22:15] <Sid_> Sobby? Uday?
[22:16] <sobby> sure
[22:16] <udaykale> oh thanks
[22:16] <sobby> I'll do that.
[22:16] * jrarick has joined #dbviz
[22:16] <Sid_> Ok. You don't have to this week, later.
[22:16] <brians> howdy jim
[22:16] <Sid_> Ahh, and lucky for Jim, he's come before Larry. Thus Larry is our other Recorder.
[22:16] <_Ross__> howdy
[22:16] <jrarick> Hi everyone
[22:16] <sobby> hey
[22:16] <jrarick> Thanks for letting me in. The last two days were fun
[22:17] <Sid_> Umm. *grins*
[22:17] <Sid_> So anyway, Hi, Jim. Welcome aboard.
[22:17] <brians> lets not get carried away jim
[22:17] <Sid_> Ok, as you all know, we have a meeting every week.
[22:18] <Sid_> Always here, unless the server dies... Same time.
[22:18] <Sid_> We don't have other scheduled, full-team meetings, though I'm not excluding it of course.
[22:18] <Sid_> Agenda:
[22:18] <Sid_> -Figure meeting recorders. Done.
[22:19] <Sid_> ...
[22:19] <Sid_> Screw it, I'm not going to type my whole agenda here. It's long.
[22:19] <Sid_> Generally we'll get overhead stuff done, and then project plan stuff.
[22:19] <SandraFaust> paste it
[22:19] <jrarick> Can you email it to us
[22:19] <Sid_> Hmm.
[22:19] <sobby> yeah please
[22:19] <Sid_> 2) Overhead:
[22:19] <Sid_> 0) Recorders: Sobby, Larry
[22:19] <Sid_> a) Web master. Schoudel + ?
[22:19] <Sid_> b) Saurabh - SourceForge
[22:19] <Sid_> c) Get HW1 on Documentation Page.
[22:19] <Sid_> d) Config Management. Follow directions. Do so by next week.
[22:19] <Sid_> e) Java: We won't teach you; links are on the project FAQ
[22:19] <Sid_> f) Overhead related questions? CM
[22:19] <Sid_> That worked. =)
[22:19] <Sid_> 3) Project Plan
[22:19] <Sid_> a) Phases: 3 cons, 1 trans
[22:20] <Sid_> b) <<still thinking here>>
[22:20] <Sid_> 4) Summary Action items
[22:20] <Sid_> a) Get CM setup, download code tree, run dbViZ.
[22:20] <Sid_> b) If you want to do coding, start learning Java.
[22:20] <Sid_> Alright. =) Most will be quick, but they still need to be covered.
[22:20] <Sid_> We need another web master. Who knows HTML?
[22:21] <udaykale> I dont know much of it, but I would like to learn it...
[22:21] <SandraFaust> I can serve as a back up with that's find with Brian
[22:21] <Sid_> Ok. Let's do this...
[22:21] <brians> either way is fine, the structure is in place
[22:21] <brians> so it shouldn't be too bad
[22:21] <Sid_> Brian's lead webmaster. Let Uday learn by looking at the example
[22:21] <udaykale> sure
[22:21] <Sid_> And if you get swamped, Brian, ask Sandra.
[22:21] <brians> that'll work
[22:21] <SandraFaust> fair enough
[22:21] <brians> uday you can poke around there now
[22:21] <brians> do you know vi??
[22:22] <udaykale> yup
[22:22] * Sid_ chuckles
[22:22] <brians> excellent that's harder than html
[22:22] <SandraFaust> LOL
[22:22] <jrarick> sid, did you add us newcomers to CVS project?
[22:22] <Sid_> Yea, all that've asked are on the SF project
[22:23] <Sid_> Sobby, you need to setup a SourceForge (SF) account and tell me the login so I can add you.
[22:23] <sobby> ok..
[22:23] <Sid_> Just do that in the next couple days or so.
[22:23] <Sid_> HW1. How'd everyone like HW1? =)
[22:23] <_Ross__> easy...since we set up sourceforge last semester
[22:24] <Sid_> I wonder how many other groups didn't have some CM setup already.
[22:24] <brians> sid, you're previous course knowledge is handy!!
[22:24] <SandraFaust> that one was one of the easiest
[22:24] <_Ross__> I think other group's projects were based on powerpoint
[22:24] <Sid_> lol
[22:24] <Sid_> How I wish all homeworks will be that easy...
[22:25] <jrarick> I looked at the next homeworks--they talk about test plans
[22:25] <Sid_> Hey, how convenient. We're going to have test plans pretty soon.
[22:25] <jrarick> Maybe we can think about test cases now
[22:25] <jrarick> Not tonight, but think about them a little
[22:25] <sobby> let's not get ahead of ourselves..
[22:26] <Sid_> Right, so soon. =)
[22:26] <Sid_> Anyway, I'd like to get the HW1 documents up on the docs page.
[22:26] <Sid_> Can you deal with that Brian and get your new minion to help. *wink*
[22:26] <brians> yep, these will be official project docs right??
[22:26] <sobby> and if there any changes..?
[22:27] <Sid_> Well, it'd make me happy to have them look like the rest, but it's not worth the effort.
[22:27] <Sid_> Ok. Add the standard header--with the title and change log. I'll send you the Change Management one.
[22:27] <brians> me and my protege will do
[22:28] <Sid_> Can you do that within a day or two?
[22:28] <brians> how bout tomorrow??
[22:28] <Sid_> Ok. Because I want us other 4 to be able to access it. =)
[22:29] <Sid_> Which leads us into the next topic... Config management.
[22:29] <Sid_> Action item for everyone: Make sure you understand our config management scheme
[22:29] <Sid_> Get the software (CVS, Java, Ant, etc) get the code tree from CVS
[22:30] <Sid_> compile and run dbViZ.
[22:30] <_Ross__> if you have any problems, hit me up with them
[22:30] <Sid_> Yea, but make sure your question isn't answered in the config management doc or Ross will slap you with a trout.
[22:31] <SandraFaust> there were couple of twaeks setting up that thing
[22:31] <_Ross__> a very big trout
[22:31] * Sid_ is assuming that the config management doc is good. =)
[22:31] <Sid_> Does tweak = hack?
[22:31] <_Ross__> :)
[22:31] <Sid_> Alright, maybe a small trout...
[22:31] <_Ross__> it's easy I swear!
[22:31] <sobby> :)
[22:31] <SandraFaust> well, I remember I had to adjust memory for DOS programs
[22:32] <Sid_> Ross you know what that was about?
[22:32] <_Ross__> nope!
[22:32] <_Ross__> total ignorance
[22:32] <SandraFaust> i can take it off line
[22:32] <_Ross__> I've only run it on macs, unix, win2k and winxp
[22:33] <Sid_> We'll deal with any such problems when we get to them.
[22:33] <Sid_> Next item... Java programming.
[22:33] <Sid_> As much as we might like to... we are not going to teach anyone how to program in Java.
[22:34] <Sid_> We can help answer questions, of course, and point to examples, but thats about it.
[22:34] <sobby> that sounds fair...
[22:34] <SandraFaust> that's expected
[22:34] <Sid_> So anyone who wants to code and doesnt know Java, it'll be a bit tougher of course.
[22:35] <Sid_> Yea, but I've met people before that knew it but didn't think about it.
[22:35] <Sid_> And they ended up becoming bottlenecks in our development process.
[22:35] <Sid_> Messy...
[22:36] <Sid_> So, are there any questions related to overhead stuff. Config management, meetings, etc. (not project plan)
[22:36] <Sid_> ?
[22:36] <jrarick> Sid, what about version labels in CM, should we worry about that?
[22:36] <Sid_> We're going to have automated weekly tags that have a set name which is the date.
[22:37] <Sid_> We'll also have manual tags and branches for milestones.
[22:37] <Sid_> That should probably be specified in the CM plan.
[22:37] <jrarick> Sounds good
[22:37] <Sid_> So... is it? =)
[22:38] <Sid_> Alright. Any of the 4 who wrote it?
[22:38] * Sid_ grins
[22:38] <_Ross__> sortof
[22:38] <_Ross__> no specifics as I honestly hadn't decided yet
[22:38] <Sid_> Ok, that sortof needs to become a yes in a couple weeks.
[22:39] <_Ross__> I'll figure that out and set up the cron job before next meeting
[22:39] <Sid_> Ok. Thanks
[22:39] <Sid_> Any other overhead questions?
[22:40] <Sid_> Ok. Next topic
[22:40] <Sid_> Hehe, the funner stuff. Project plan...
[22:40] <Sid_> This semester I have scheduled that we will complete four phases:
[22:40] <Sid_> Three construction phases and 1 transition phase.
[22:41] <Sid_> Pretty quickly we need to prioritize our use cases
[22:41] <Sid_> Well, just generally figure out what use cases we'll do.
[22:41] <sobby> and the same goes for writing test cases based on those..
[22:41] <brians> are we adding this semester or refining what we have?
[22:41] <Sid_> Yea, concurrently, we can setup a general test plan document.
[22:42] <Sid_> Looking at the current use case model
[22:42] * larknox has joined #dbviz
[22:42] <larknox> Hello
[22:42] <Sid_> We have: Install dbViZ, Import schema from DB, query building stuff, query execution, undo redo and print.
[22:42] <Sid_> Welcome Larry.
[22:43] <Sid_> We'll have a summary up so you know what we covered already.
[22:43] <larknox> Sorry- connection problems, then wrong server.
[22:43] <larknox> ok, thanks
[22:43] <Sid_> I think that list of use cases is more than enough for us to deal with this semester.
[22:43] <Sid_> If we want to do them completely.
[22:44] <Sid_> And the query building and execution is the highest risk of them all, since we've devoted no thought to them.
[22:44] <brians> we need import from database as well then
[22:44] <brians> maybe we don't do query??
[22:44] <Sid_> I think that'd definitely be one of those really-cool-and-flashy ones.
[22:44] <Sid_> import from db.
[22:45] <Sid_> Yea, I'd be open to keeping the query stuff low priority.
[22:45] <_Ross__> which is needed for querying
[22:45] <SandraFaust> and shouldn't be difficult
[22:45] <Sid_> Query building will be difficult.
[22:45] <Sid_> A lot of GUI work.
[22:45] <SandraFaust> import from DB should be easy
[22:45] <_Ross__> LOT OF GUI WORK
[22:45] <Sid_> Well, depends on how well we do the importfrom db.
[22:46] <_Ross__> is there a way to do it through jdbc?
[22:46] <Sid_> No.
[22:46] <_Ross__> *goes to look at javadocs*
[22:46] <Sid_> JDBC doesn't expose database metadata.
[22:46] <Sid_> I checked already.
[22:46] <brians> i believe it does
[22:46] <Sid_> It doesn't expose things like foreign keys.
[22:46] <SandraFaust> i thought it did
[22:46] <Sid_> Or table lists.
[22:46] <Sid_> Nope.
[22:46] <udaykale> can we check out the system catalogs, if any...
[22:46] <Sid_> You can make database-specific queries.
[22:46] <brians> i can look into it
[22:46] <SandraFaust> odbc?
[22:46] <Sid_> So, we can use system catalogs--db specific.
[22:47] <brians> with oracle you can get metadata from data dict tables
[22:47] <Sid_> I don't know about odbc, but I know nothing from odbc.
[22:47] <sobby> yeah..that
[22:47] <SandraFaust> yes, that's what I was thinking
[22:47] <sobby> s no big deal
[22:47] <Sid_> Ok, that last sentence of mine made no sense. =)
[22:47] <sobby> it's just like querying any other table
[22:48] <SandraFaust> yes, and FK and all other stuff should be there
[22:48] <Sid_> I don't know if ODBC can extract metadata in a database independent manner; I know almost nothing about how to use ODBC.
[22:48] <brians> jdbc would be used
[22:48] <SandraFaust> well, I can check tomorrow and let you know
[22:48] <Sid_> Alright, definition clash.
[22:48] <sobby> yeah JDBC
[22:48] <Sid_> You use JDBC to make SQL calls.
[22:48] <sobby> after the connection is made up
[22:48] <Sid_> The SQL calls tell you the metadata.
[22:49] <Sid_> Not JDBC calls.
[22:49] <sobby> it's just a matter of querying whatever youwant to
[22:49] <Sid_> So anyway who wants to do an Oracle importer?
[22:49] <_Ross__> ok, we're all saying the same thing
[22:49] <udaykale> u use jdbc to transfer queries... Project Plan
[22:49] <udaykale> <Sid_> a) Phases: 3 cons, 1 trans
[22:49] <udaykale> <Sid_> b) <<still thinking here>>
[22:49] <udaykale> <Sid_> 4) Summary Action items
[22:49] <udaykale> <Sid_> a) Get CM setup, download code tree, run dbViZ.
[22:49] <udaykale> <Sid_> b) If you want to do coding, start learning Java.
[22:49] <udaykale> <Sid_> Alright. =) Most will be quick, but they still need to be covered.
[22:49] <Sid_> Umm, thanks. =)
[22:49] <udaykale> i think i messed up
[22:49] * Sid_ thinks so too. *grin*
[22:50] <sobby> wow
[22:50] <Sid_> Let me switch gears and come back to this.
[22:50] <Sid_> Test plan. Anyone have experience with writing a test plan?
[22:50] <sobby> I have some
[22:50] <jrarick> I have too
[22:51] <Sid_> Ok. Can you two work on writing up a test plan for the project?
[22:51] <jrarick> sure
[22:51] <sobby> sure
[22:51] <Sid_> You can use the RUP examples and templates.
[22:51] <Sid_> The RUP templates are available on our web site somewhere.
[22:51] <jrarick> OK
[22:51] <sobby> fine
[22:51] <Sid_> When can you get it done?
[22:51] <jrarick> Our company will be using rational, so I can use their templates also
[22:52] <Sid_> Well, try to keep the document looking similar to what we have already, which is the standard rational templates.
[22:52] <SandraFaust> btw, we already started the Test plan last semester
[22:52] <sobby> umm...
[22:52] <SandraFaust> http://jdbv.sourceforge.net/ElaborationDocs/Master%20Test%20Plan.doc
[22:52] <Sid_> Let's say 2 weeks?
[22:52] <Sid_> Thanks Sandra
[22:52] <jrarick> sounds good
[22:53] <sobby> ok with me too
[22:53] * Sid_ busy typing...
[22:53] <sobby> did you guys have a test plan last semester ...
[22:53] <Sid_> Hmm... *thinks*
[22:54] <SandraFaust> yes, the url is http://jdbv.sourceforge.net/ElaborationDocs/Master%20Test%20Plan.doc
[22:54] <Sid_> *grin* One of those I didn't get around to reading.
[22:54] <sobby> oh i am sorry ...:)
[22:54] <SandraFaust> well, it was written in the last week
[22:54] <SandraFaust> 2 days before the deadline :)
[22:54] <Sid_> Yea. A few were like that. =)
[22:54] <sobby> we'll see what we can get fromthere.. ..
[22:55] <SandraFaust> I read it, though
[22:55] <Sid_> Ok, howabout we make it 1 week to do a revision of it, Jim and Sobby. If you find it's tougher, just tell me it'll take longer.
[22:55] <jrarick> I looked at it just now, it looks pretty thorough, but that is a first pass
[22:55] <sobby> ok..
[22:55] <Sid_> I'll try to read it and offer comments on it.
[22:56] <Sid_> And I'm going to do a revision of the SDP since our team composition has changed.
[22:56] <_Ross__> side note: I need to update the uml for our classes..... just thought Id throw that in
[22:56] <sobby> I guess everyone can..and decide on / if anything was missed on last semseter
[22:57] <sobby> i guess it will be a good input
[22:57] <SandraFaust> and we need more UML based on the feedback we received
[22:57] <Sid_> Yea, the class diagrams aren't current.
[22:57] <Sid_> And I'd be one who has to update it...
[22:57] <Sid_> Ok. Need a deputy project manager to update the SDP. Any takers?
[22:58] <SandraFaust> I can take a look at it
[22:58] <_Ross__> I guess that could be me
[22:58] <Sid_> Well, you're doing other things already, Ross
[22:58] <_Ross__> happy to not take on more!
[22:58] <Sid_> And you know I'll find other CM tasks for you to do. =)
[22:59] <Sid_> Oh... I had one in mind a few minutes ago... I'll remmber it eventually...
[22:59] <larknox> I'm not doing anything, but SDP doesn't ring a bell just now and I hesitate to volunteer when I don't know what for.
[22:59] <Sid_> Hehe, ok, in my SDP schedule, I have for phase Construction1: Implement high risk use cases.
[22:59] <Sid_> Software Development Plan.
[23:00] <Sid_> Big nasty mean document. =)
[23:00] <SandraFaust> I can change that. ;)
[23:00] <Sid_> Make it small? =D
[23:00] <SandraFaust> yes! :)
[23:00] <Sid_> Hehe
[23:01] <Sid_> So who doesn't have something to do?...
[23:01] <Sid_> Larry... Uday?
[23:01] <udaykale> i dont have much - since html is easier than vi ;)
[23:01] <larknox> I'd be happy to assist.
[23:01] <Sid_> So you think. *big smile*
[23:01] <sobby> :)
[23:01] <Sid_> 1 sec
[23:02] <Sid_> Well, wiki's bein slow again
[23:02] <Sid_> So Larry you have DB experience?
[23:03] <larknox> I took a class - don't know if you'd call that experience.
[23:03] <Sid_> Better'n nothing.
[23:03] <SandraFaust> what do you need sid?
[23:03] <Sid_> Java and/or JDBC experience?
[23:03] <udaykale> I can help
[23:03] <brians> i can help as well
[23:03] <Sid_> Use case realization for DB import.
[23:03] <larknox> I also worked with a proprietary db a bit.
[23:04] <sobby> i worked on JDBC-oracle last semester( database sem)...
[23:04] <brians> refresh memory, do we have use case realizations out there?
[23:04] <Sid_> Schoudel, you stick with the SQL import stuff.
[23:04] <sobby> would be happy to help
[23:04] <SandraFaust> only one realization doc
[23:04] <Sid_> Sonia wrote a Import schema from DB.
[23:04] <Sid_> Dunno its quality.
[23:04] <udaykale> i can help with the db import stuff
[23:05] <Sid_> Ok. Uday, Larry, start learning Java and JDBC.
[23:05] <_Ross__> :)
[23:05] <Sid_> That ok?
[23:05] <larknox> ok
[23:05] <SandraFaust> I'll do that too
[23:05] <_Ross__> if you have any questions, send em over
[23:05] <udaykale> no problem
[23:05] <brians> we'll need a test db
[23:06] <Sid_> Learn enough that you can help with designing the classes for importing from DB
[23:06] <Sid_> Not necessarily enough to actuall hit.
[23:06] <Sid_> Ah hah! That's the CM thing I thought of then forgot, Ross
[23:06] * Sid_ cackles.
[23:07] <Sid_> We'll talk about it offline, Ross.
[23:07] <_Ross__> nnnnooooooooo!!!!
[23:07] <_Ross__> ok
[23:07] <Sid_> Sobby, what did you do with Oracle before?
[23:08] <sobby> tell me what exactly you are looking for ...?
[23:08] <Sid_> Did you do standard SQL queries? System table queries? Administration? INstallation?
[23:09] <sobby> sql queries yes, system table queries yes, installation yes , admin somewhat
[23:09] <Sid_> Ok.
[23:10] <Sid_> Larry, Uday, once you get the dbViZ code
[23:10] <Sid_> Look at the existing SQL import stuff to get an idea of how the things work.
[23:10] <Sid_> That'll help understand the architecture
[23:11] <udaykale> ok
[23:11] <larknox> yep
[23:11] <Sid_> Try to get to the point where you have a good idea of how yoou might design an import thingy
[23:11] <Sid_> Or why the SQL import thingy and general import architecture is designed the way it is.
[23:12] <Sid_> Ok. Everyone's got something to do. That's my main goal. =)
[23:12] <sobby> :))
[23:12] <Sid_> Next week Ill be more organized and get an agenda out before the meeting.
[23:12] <Sid_> Any questions?
[23:13] <sobby> not for now :)
[23:13] <brians> sid, send me that doc
[23:13] * Sid_ nods
[23:13] <udaykale> and also to me - let me start off my first html assignment
[23:13] <Sid_> Ok. Everyone, get your CM setup. Help docs are on the site. And Schoudel will email when the HW1 Config Mgt doc is on the site too.
[23:14] <Sid_> Be able to say "I ran dbViZ" by next weeks meeting.
[23:14] <Sid_> Ok. Thanks for coming everyone. Meetin's done.
[23:14] <SandraFaust> night night everybody
[23:14] <_Ross__> sweet! it's before midnight!
[23:15] <brians> bye
[23:15] <jrarick> Thanks, good night
[23:15] <udaykale> bye everybody
[23:15] * brians has quit IRC (Connection Closed)
[23:15] <larknox> ok, thank you!
[23:15] <udaykale> good night
[23:15] <Sid_> lol. only 15 minutes over.
[23:15] <sobby> 'night everyone
[23:15] <Sid_> And some because we started late.
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[23:15] <sobby> first meeting
[23:15] <sobby> :)
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[23:16] * Disconnected
Session Close: Thu Feb 06 23:16:31 2003