Meeting 2 - Chat Session

(21:30) <Sid_> Item 1... Process shtuff...
(21:31) <Sid_> The vote as you may have noticed, is split 50/50.
(21:31) <Sid_> But after emailing Howard Sun about how previous distance groups have done XP
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(21:31) <Sid_> and him saying "they did badly" and us having people around the wrld...
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(21:32) <Sid_> I figure RUP about wins.
(21:32) <Sid_> Welcome, Sandra
(21:32) <sandrafaust> Hello, I made it!
(21:32) <Dave1> There is a white paper on rational's site on how to do RUP as XP
(21:32) <sandrafaust> Thanks, it was rough. ;)
(21:32) <sandrafaust> RUP as XP? :)
(21:33) <Dave1> I can forward a link on to everyone - I haven't had time to read it yet.
(21:33) <Sid_> I'm a bit hesitant to follow a different process than RUP or XP
(21:33) <Sid_> It's tough enough to follow the process when it's well-defined.
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(21:33) <_Ross_> oh
(21:33) <_Ross_> so basically then we should go with rup
(21:33) <aasathe> hi all
(21:33) <Dave1> That's probably a good idea, why confuse the issue.
(21:34) <aasathe> hello?
(21:34) <Sid_> I don't like RUP, but I think that's our best path.
(21:34) <Sid_> Hey, Abhay
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(21:34) <Dave1> Hi
(21:34) <jianmei> it will be good for scroe
(21:34) <Dave1> Bye abhay
(21:34) <sandrafaust> RUP seems like safest
(21:34) <Sid_> Tedious too.
(21:34) <sandrafaust> I'd be very interested to try XP if we were all local
(21:35) <jianmei> me too
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(21:35) <Sid_> Abhay, troubles?
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(21:35) <Sid_> Lotsa troubles, I guess...
(21:35) <aasathe> keep getting thrown off
(21:35) <_Ross_> yeah this seems to blow
(21:35) <Sid_> So I see.
(21:35) <sandrafaust> but since that's not the case....rup that is
(21:36) <Sid_> We'll just have to get people to read the chat log. =)
(21:36) <jianmei> we have too
(21:36) <Sid_> So we're doing RUP.
(21:36) <_Ross_> Long live the RUP
(21:36) <Sid_> I don't know how many have looked at the RUP site closely.
(21:36) <sandrafaust> if you have the whole log save it
(21:36) <Sid_> The sheer amount of documentation that's required is... ugh...
(21:36) <Sid_> (auto-logging)
(21:37) <Sid_> And RUP has standard templates for every document available on their site, in MSWord and HTML.
(21:37) <aasathe> we can save on doc if the Se tool does some of it..
(21:37) <sandrafaust> Sid, regarding the schema->file->SQL parser, Brian thought the steps would be automatic, not separate
(21:37) <Sid_> Ok, let's talk about that later in the meeting, Sandra.
(21:38) <Sid_> What do you mean, Abhay?
(21:38) <jianmei> do we need write alldocumnet forRUP? i guess we already covered use case etc.
(21:38) <Sid_> The use cases need to be stuck in the formal format.
(21:38) <aasathe> I saw that rose allowscreation of docs in the tol
(21:38) <Sid_> They probably don't need much editing, but just rearrangement.
(21:38) <Sid_> And these are primarily text documents we're talking about, not diagrams.
(21:39) <jianmei> specific?
(21:39) <Sid_> Things like the Use Cases we wrote up for HW2.
(21:39) <Sid_> I have a short list on the Meeting2 agenda. But in particular
(21:40) <Sid_> fully-dressed use cases, iteration plan, risk list, vision statement, glossary, software configuration management doc, coding practices doc, tool list doc
(21:40) <_Ross_> yummy
(21:40) <Sid_> Phase plan doc, phase completion doc, design practices doc...
(21:40) <Sid_> That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
(21:40) <_Ross_> I'll take up the coding practices doc..I already started to write it up
(21:40) <Sid_> The ones we won't have to do are the dozen or so that deal with the business stuff.
(21:41) <Sid_> And money/staffing.
(21:41) <Sid_> Most will need to be done if we want a good score.
(21:41) <sandrafaust> speaking of which, is manager's job to track actuals, or have diary as to when what is done?
(21:41) <Sid_> Say again?
(21:42) <sandrafaust> jhonson said that with rup you need to do somethings at certain time
(21:42) <sandrafaust> time
(21:42) <sandrafaust> times, there should be some log as when things were done, i assume
(21:42) <aasathe> how much of the project need to be done by the end of this term ?
(21:42) <Sid_> Yep. So we have certain documents that need to be completed by the end of certain phases.
(21:42) <Sid_> As much as our plan calls for.
(21:42) <Sid_> And our plan should be scaled so we have something that works by the end of the year.
(21:43) <Sid_> 2nd semester, I mean.
(21:43) <Sid_> Most RUP projects are at least midway through Elaboration if not 1st Construction by Christmas, I believe.
(21:43) <aasathe> that meanswe stop at constrction somewhere ?
(21:44) <Sid_> We should try to setup our plan so we have an alpha version or better at the end of Spring
(21:44) <jianmei> after use case 2, 3?
(21:44) <Sid_> Testing is a process we need to do...
(21:44) <Sid_> That's one possibility. Depends on how fast coders we have.
(21:45) <Sid_> Any other questions on... umm... item 1?
(21:45) <Sid_> Ok. Next is Choosing Roles.
(21:45) <jianmei> i was thinking we already did vision risk, do we need make it pretty?
(21:45) <Sid_> Yes, it needs to be pretty.
(21:45) <_Ross_> very pretty
(21:45) <_Ross_> grade worthy pretty
(21:46) <Sid_> The rational site has standard templates we need to follow.
(21:46) <Sid_> We probably don't have to do much new writing, just rearranging.
(21:46) <Sid_> At least for the docs we already have.
(21:46) <jianmei> ok
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(21:46) <Dave11> made it back
(21:46) <Sid_> I put the links to the documents on the Meeting2 Agenda.
(21:47) <aasathe> they look good
(21:47) <Sid_> Let's try to get some roles sorted out.
(21:47) <aasathe> 2 architects ?
(21:47) <Sid_> We'll need Designers and Implementors later on. Immediately, we need System Analysts
(21:47) <Sid_> Maybe another architect.
(21:48) <sandrafaust> for the roles...I haven't done any Java prog, I did bunch of system analysis, design, and some archtecture. So, whatever ou think it suits be the best I cna do. 
(21:48) <_Ross_> I'd love to take on the architecture role
(21:48) <Sid_> For System Anaysts, the main task will be making the Use Cases pretty.
(21:48) <aasathe> I can do architecture
(21:48) <Dave11> I'll be an analyst.
(21:48) <jianmei>  iam not good at those, but i can critize it
(21:49) <Sid_> There's also the Glossary, Vision Statemeent (prettying) and Use Case Model
(21:49) <sandrafaust> i can be the deisgner, if it doesn't require Java expertise
(21:49) <aasathe> what will analyst role do ?
(21:49) <Sid_> I just said what the Analysts do. =)
(21:49) <Dave11> Analysts do the use cases - I believe
(21:49) <Sid_> And we only need 1 or 2 architects.
(21:50) <sandrafaust> if it does, I can do analyst (or atchitect, but there are already 2 ;)
(21:50) <aasathe> should the architects be Db kind of people or GUI kind ?
(21:50) <jianmei> both?
(21:50) <Sid_> Both.
(21:50) <Dave11> both
(21:51) <_Ross_> eek.  this is already looking like a train wreck.  Maybe we should do another wiki, post your preference thing
(21:51) <Dave11> more integration minded
(21:51) <Sid_> Yea, I agree, Ross. Though I was of the idea that everyone that wasn't me or an architect is an analyst.
(21:51) <Sid_> Unless they slack and skip helping with the documentation. =)
(21:51) <_Ross_> oh sounds good then
(21:51) <sandrafaust> speaking of which, I noticed that people are too much Oracle oriented
(21:52) <aasathe> how about we put our preferences on all roles, take it out of discussion, and let our manger decide on it ?
(21:52) <sandrafaust> i thought this was supposed to be cross db project.
(21:52) <Sid_> Ooh, more power to me. =D
(21:52) <Sid_> The framework is database neutral.
(21:52) <Sid_> Schema importers are not.
(21:52) <Sid_> And if we know how to deal with Oracle, then we can go with it.
(21:53) <Sid_> Generally, I said that most everyone's an analyst
(21:53) <Sid_> because we have all those documents to make pretty and it's a bit of work.
(21:53) <sandrafaust> right, but i noticed that when we talk about it, people think *only* about Oracle and include its specifics
(21:54) <Sid_> Well, it'll be up to the architects to come up with a database neutral architecture.
(21:54) <sandrafaust> Architects, beaware of me. ;)
(21:54) <Sid_> Someone can take on the Role of architect reviewer to assure that.
(21:54) <Sid_> Like Sandra. =)
(21:54) <aasathe> I guess most of the work is in docs..
(21:54) <sandrafaust> Yes! :)
(21:54) <Sid_> For now, yes.
(21:55) <Sid_> We won't be writing any real code for a few weeks.
(21:55) <Sid_> Prototypes at the most.
(21:55) <Sid_> I will put a list of documents that need to be written up on the wiki
(21:55) <Sid_> until we get a web site.
(21:55) <Sid_> Everyone can signup for 1 (or more, hah).
(21:55) <sandrafaust> which will be by the end of the week...
(21:55) <jianmei> it sounds good
(21:56) <Sid_> Since we're doing it this way, with the midterm...
(21:56) <Sid_> I'd like to get them in say, by Wednesday of next week.
(21:56) <Sid_> And end Inception in 2 weeks.
(21:57) <Sid_> Sound fine with everyone?
(21:57) <sandrafaust> get what by Wendesday? Website or signup or documents? :)
(21:57) <_Ross_> hopefully the midterm will teach me what inception is...
(21:57) <Dave11> sounds good
(21:57) <Sid_> Get the documents completed by next wednesday.
(21:57) <Sid_> I'll have the documents list up in a couple days.
(21:57) <sandrafaust> ok, sounds good
(21:57) <Sid_> That'll give everyone 1 full week to write them up.
(21:57) <Sid_> After that, we can review them and start planning out elaboration.
(21:58) <sandrafaust> sounds good
(21:58) <jianmei> ok
(21:58) <Dave11> great
(21:58) <Sid_> Heh, so that's items 3 and 4...
(21:58) <_Ross_> next!
(21:58) <Sid_> Additional issues that I didn't write down:
(21:58) <Sid_> (because I thought of them just today..)
(21:58) <Sid_> Text document formats will be MS Word or HTML.
(21:59) <Sid_> So hopefully everyone either has Word or knows how to use HTML (or both).
(21:59) <aasathe> do we need all diagrams turned in before we start on docs ?
(21:59) <Sid_> Anyone not meet that criteria?
(21:59) <Sid_> That's the next item, Abhay...
(21:59) <Sid_> Ok. I'll assume everyone can use at least 1 of those formats.
(22:00) <Sid_> For graphics, I'd like to have versions of them in a common format, like GIF, JPG or PNG.
(22:00) <aasathe> jpg ?
(22:00) <Sid_> But keeping the original copies stored up so we can edit them is equally important.
(22:00) <sandrafaust> what is png?
(22:00) <sandrafaust> gif or jpg are good for me
(22:00) <_Ross_> a graphic forma!
(22:01) <Sid_> =) JPG is a lossy compression, raster image format.
(22:01) <Sid_> Good for photographs.
(22:01) <aasathe> hey sid, did you use the student edition of rose?
(22:01) <_Ross_> gif will be better for diagrams
(22:01) <Sid_> PNG is a newer format, not lossy compression.
(22:01) <_Ross_> not too many colors
(22:01) <Sid_> Yea, most cases GIFs are best.
(22:01) <Sid_> For solid-color diagrams.
(22:01) <aasathe> color diagrams ?
(22:01) <_Ross_> jpg make text look sloppy
(22:02) <Sid_> And I used the standard version of Rose. At work.
(22:02) <_Ross_> gif does color fine, just not 3200000 colors
(22:02) <Sid_> It sucks doing homework. It sucks more doing homework and work.  =D
(22:02) <sandrafaust> yes, and we won't be scanning photos, i hope 
(22:02) <Sid_> "homework AT work"
(22:02) <Sid_> Probably we won't use photos, but I want to keep the flexibility in.
(22:02) <sandrafaust> I could do that last semester, not this one, unfortunately
(22:03) <Sid_> Questions on file formats?
(22:03) <sandrafaust> no, next
(22:03) <Sid_> Alright. Next is getting those HW2's on the project directories.
(22:03) <Sid_> Ross sent out SSH/CVS instructions before the meeting.
(22:04) <Sid_> Everyone needs to make sure they can run SSH soon.
(22:04) <sandrafaust> yes, is thursday fine for that?
(22:04) <Sid_> Because we should get everyones' HW2s uploaded so everyone can access them.
(22:04) <Sid_> Yea. I won't pin anything before the exam. =)
(22:04) <Sid_> Except a meeting that's running 5 minutes late. =)
(22:05) <_Ross_> it doesn't take long to do I promise.  Most of the instuctions are just me rambling :)
(22:05) <Sid_> I'll get exact instructions out by Thursday.
(22:05) <Sid_> Make sense for everyone?
(22:05) <Dave11> yup
(22:05) <sandrafaust> yup!
(22:05) <jianmei> yes
(22:05) <aasathe> ya
(22:05) <Sid_> Oh, and last... Someone want to find a better IRC server than Dal.net? =)
(22:06) <jianmei> absolutely
(22:06) <Dave11> if we want i might be able to set up a conference bridge at work
(22:06) <Dave11> I don't know if Sonia wants to call in though
(22:06) <Sid_> I don't think an 8 person telecon is a good idea...
(22:07) <aasathe> hasanyone tried something like netmeeting ? does it do voice ?
(22:07) <Sid_> Haven't tried it.
(22:07) <sandrafaust> sonia is on dial up, it wouldn't work for her
(22:07) <Sid_> Do we know that for sure, Sandra?
(22:07) <sandrafaust> yes, she told me
(22:08) <sandrafaust> you can check with her
(22:08) <Sid_> Any other issues?
(22:08) <sandrafaust> nope
(22:08) <Dave11> no
(22:08) <Sid_> Oh, can I dump writing a summary on anyone? =)
(22:08) <aasathe> any preferences on SE tools etc ?
(22:09) <Dave11> I wasn't able to stay connected long enough to do a good one.
(22:09) <Sid_> I don't have any, Abhay. As long as the person who writes it is willing to edit them later.
(22:09) <sandrafaust> I missed first half, and I did it last time, somebody  else's turn ;)
(22:09) <aasathe> I have some part after 7:30
(22:09) <Sid_> And they can turn it into a GIF.
(22:09) <Sid_> Fine, I'll write up the summary. It wasn't much anyway.
(22:10) <Sid_> Ok. We're done. Thanks everyone for coming.
(22:10) <sandrafaust> thank you, good night!
(22:10) <Sid_> ---------------------------------------------------------
(22:10) <aasathe> bye all.
(22:10) <Dave11> bye...
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(22:10) <jianmei> byu
(22:10) * Sid_ waves
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(22:11) * Disconnected
Session Close: Mon Oct 14 22:11:17 2002