Meeting 4 - Chat Session

[21:05] <Sid_> Topic 1.Project vision and use case list...
[21:05] <_Ross> turn on logging!!!
[21:05] <abhaysathe> start ?
[21:05] * abhaysathe has quit IRC (Unknown)
[21:05] <Sid_> This is generally just to make sure we're all on the same page with what the system does.
[21:06] <Sid_> And so we can tear apart Abhay's document, now that he's not in the meeting rightnow.
[21:06] <_Ross> muahhahaaha
[21:06] * abhaysathe has joined #dbVis
[21:06] <Sid_> Oops, time's up. He's back...
[21:06] <SandraFaust> :)
[21:06] <abhaysathe> mirc froze on me
[21:07] <Sid_> So hopefully everyone got a chnce to look at the Vision statement.
[21:07] <abhaysathe> it is the best!
[21:07] <Sid_> =)
[21:07] <brians> looks good, we might want to talk about priorities under 3.5
[21:07] <Sid_> In general, I agree with what's been said on it.
[21:08] <Sid_> And yes, we'll need to handle prioritizing the use cases. That's the second hlf of topic #1
[21:08] <abhaysathe> yes it is definately up for revision
[21:08] <brians> I would make installing a high priority and connect to most popular
[21:08] <brians> databases a low or med depending on time
[21:08] <Sid_> Hold that thought, Brian. We'll get to it. =)
[21:09] <Sid_> Does everyone agree with what's been said in the vision statement?
[21:09] <jiamei> yes
[21:09] <Sid_> are there major issues that you thought totally boggle you?
[21:09] <SandraFaust> yes
[21:09] <_Dave_> yes
[21:09] <brians> small typos but good content
[21:09] <Sid_> I prolly shouldn't have asked two opposite questions...
[21:09] <Sid_> Ok. If anyone's confused by it, say "confused"
[21:09] <abhaysathe> Oops :(
[21:10] <Sid_> Ok. Good. No confusion.
[21:10] <Sid_> Everyone's invited to make criticisms on any of the documents.
[21:10] <Sid_> This is a deviation from RUP that I'm going to try.
[21:10] <brians> i thought the use case model sucked!!
[21:10] <abhaysathe> do we then draw link from vison to use cases ?
[21:11] <Sid_> Since we won't be doing any frmal reviews, maybe we can get several informal ones.
[21:11] <Sid_> It should be the other way. Use cases should link to the vision statement.
[21:11] <SandraFaust> is that the deviation from RUP, Sid?
[21:11] <abhaysathe> I was expecting al use cases to be up, found only a few..
[21:11] <Sid_> The deviation is that I'm trying to make everyone reviewers for everything.
[21:12] <abhaysathe> it is worth the time
[21:12] <SandraFaust> ok
[21:12] <Sid_> We'll also need the Use case list, prioritized, soon. It's not really supposed to be stuck in the Vision statement.
[21:12] <_Ross> that sounds good and it will also keep us all on the same page with the project
[21:12] <Sid_> At least, not to the detail we'll need.
[21:13] <abhaysathe> is the analyst supposed t extract use cases ?
[21:13] <Sid_> Yes.
[21:13] <Sid_> Now, moving to the use cases...
[21:13] <Sid_> The Use case model Brian wrote up is a good start. Exactly what we needed for INception
[21:14] <Sid_> And now we're going to have to go into the use cases more indepth.
[21:14] <Sid_> Using the terminology from that use case book, the use cases there are generally flying with the birds
[21:14] <Sid_> and we need the sea level ones.
[21:15] <Sid_> to backup for a moment... Most of us are starting Elaboration today.
[21:15] <SandraFaust> are you sure? It seemed to me like they were sea level
[21:15] <Sid_> A few will be taking another, small iteration at Inception to get out more documents.
[21:15] <Sid_> Some are sea level.
[21:15] <brians> i like the wave symbols from the book!!
[21:16] <abhaysathe> (looks up use cases on the website)
[21:16] <jiamei> We will have all the use case up at the end of the semester including print etc?
[21:16] <abhaysathe> we need them now!
[21:16] <Sid_> That's the other thing. We need to prioritize them all.
[21:17] <brians> print -- low
[21:17] <Sid_> One thing I was thinking after I wrote up that schedule is that it's a little too risky.
[21:17] <Sid_> I don't think we'll be able to fit everything in there.
[21:17] <Sid_> Yes, Printing is low prioirity. I've just been including it because it's one of those "different" use cases.
[21:17] <Sid_> Having a good installation procedure is also low priority. As long as we can mix together instructions, that's good enough.
[21:18] <SandraFaust> I agree
[21:18] <brians> we could make querying low or just very basic, it's really dependent on use cases before it
[21:18] <Sid_> The highest priority I see are getting a schema imported and a diagram made.
[21:18] <jiamei> i agree
[21:18] <Sid_> Those are the core capabilities.
[21:18] <brians> thats really the meat of the system
[21:18] <SandraFaust> yes
[21:18] <Sid_> Now, the first has always been sorta nebulous, dependent on the skill set of our developers.
[21:19] <brians> are we all comfortable with schema - there was some notes bandied about
[21:19] <Sid_> We have 2 approaches:
[21:19] <Sid_> 1) Use JDBC to read the schema using metatables
[21:19] <Sid_> 2) Parse a SQL file that has CREATE TABLE statements.
[21:19] <Sid_> I don't think we can do both.
[21:19] <SandraFaust> I'd say SQL should go first
[21:20] <Sid_> Or if we can, we can do one early, and do the second approach later.
[21:20] <SandraFaust> it's less DB dependent
[21:20] <SandraFaust> and can be leveraged for the other approach
[21:20] <brians> plus the overhead of putting up a database
[21:20] <SandraFaust> right
[21:20] <Sid_> It will require someone who knows SQL to write the test SQL files.
[21:21] <Sid_> And hopefully someone different to implement.
[21:21] <SandraFaust> I can do that
[21:21] <brians> i can do that no problem as well, very skilled at SQL
[21:21] <Sid_> Ok.
[21:21] <Sid_> Let's assume we're using SQL92 syntax, just for simplicity.
[21:22] <Sid_> And for those who think this is sorta a whimsical idea...
[21:22] <Sid_> I got the idea from a friend at work who wrote something that sorta did this.
[21:22] <Sid_> It parsed SQL files and figured out the list of tables and columns.
[21:22] <SandraFaust> Actaully can use scripts for my current project (Oracale), and can provide you with some that MS SQL Server created, that should do it
[21:23] <Sid_> It didn't do anything fancy like draw it as a diagram, but it did parse the files
[21:23] <Sid_> Just make sure we don't get screwed up with company proprietary or anything. =)
[21:23] <SandraFaust> no, it's mine
[21:23] <Sid_> Ok. And also, make sure it's SQL92 compliant.
[21:23] <SandraFaust> yes
[21:24] <Sid_> So who wants to keep working on the Use Case model. Brian?
[21:24] <brians> that's fine as long as we agree on what we're doing
[21:24] <jiamei> what are these related to the e-mail you sent out before, sid? abstract class or interface that define an importor
[21:24] <jiamei> i am little bit of lost here
[21:25] <Sid_> Well, we were talking about implementations of importers.
[21:25] <_Ross> That will be taken care of in the uml specification of the classes
[21:25] <Sid_> The architecture will define abstract classes so you can plug in different importers.
[21:25] <jiamei> so we will folow that idea?
[21:25] <abhaysathe> should keep on looking for more usecase docs to appear on the website ?
[21:25] <Sid_> Then to start out we'll have just one concrete class of the Importer.
[21:26] <Sid_> Yes, Jianmei.
[21:26] <jiamei> thanks
[21:26] <Sid_> Yea. Brian, I'll send you some of the use cases that I'm thinking about. Sea level things, to get you started.
[21:26] <_Ross> I'll try to get a gif up of that system by the next meeting
[21:26] <Sid_> And you can concentrate on those 2 high-level use cases: schema importation and ER diagram construction.
[21:27] <SandraFaust> what are the documents that need to be produced soon?
[21:27] <brians> i believe architecture?
[21:27] <Sid_> That's one.
[21:27] <_Ross> :)
[21:27] <Sid_> One minute... lemme look at that schedule...
[21:28] <SandraFaust> What should I do in the mean time? Brian, do you need help with Use Cases?
[21:28] <abhaysathe> All, Please elaborate or give more ideas on ER diagram construction usecase
[21:28] <Sid_> (one sec)
[21:28] <brians> No, its not really too tricky as far as the diagram
[21:29] <brians> maybe with the writeup of them, do we know who is doing that?
[21:29] <Sid_> Doing what, Brian?
[21:29] <brians> use case writeups
[21:30] <Sid_> Yea, that's one thing we can do.
[21:30] <Sid_> How did the documentation-task work with people?
[21:30] <Sid_> I'm trying to guage how much we can do per week...
[21:31] <brians> on a side note, is the dev plan and vision statement the standard header we are using
[21:31] <brians> i can switch the use case model to word to match that?
[21:31] <Sid_> Ok... does that mean it was ridiculously simple?...
[21:31] <SandraFaust> worked well, I could have done more, especially if i didn't have 10 ours of overtime.
[21:31] <abhaysathe> 1 iteration/week ?
[21:31] <Sid_> Oh, we just want to be known as Group 48? Kinda boring...
[21:31] <Sid_> No, not 1 iteration per week.
[21:31] <Sid_> 1 iteration per 2-3 weeks.
[21:32] <Sid_> Except for the 2nd iteration of Inception
[21:32] <Sid_> which I included just because there was too much to do for today.
[21:32] <Sid_> Alright. Brian, can you start putting up a list of the sea level use cases on the site
[21:33] <Sid_> Just add them as you think of them.
[21:33] <brians> to the model?
[21:33] <Sid_> Yes. And just upload often if it's not too troublesome
[21:34] <brians> i'll do what i can, feedback is good and i'll be happy to add
[21:34] <Sid_> Sorry I'm a bit disorganized today. Busy few days...
[21:34] <abhaysathe> I'll give feedback, brian
[21:35] <_Ross> yeah sure,... excuses excuses brian :) :)
[21:35] <Sid_> That's "sid", Ross...
[21:35] * Sid_ slaps _Ross around a bit with a large trout
[21:35] <Sid_> Ok. Topic 2. Even tho we stretched #1 a bit...
[21:35] <jiamei> haha
[21:35] <Sid_> Schedule...
[21:35] <Sid_> I have Elaboration starting now.
[21:35] <Sid_> I had to mash things around a little
[21:36] <Sid_> becuse I would've preferred to give anther week or 2 to Construction
[21:36] <brians> can you add sandra and I as webmasters? or fit us in some role? didn't see it
[21:36] <Sid_> but Winter break got in the way...
[21:36] <abhaysathe> do we have roles for elaboration assigned ?
[21:36] <Sid_> Will do, Brian
[21:36] <SandraFaust> I'd like to go in desiners too, if that's ok
[21:36] <brians> thanks
[21:37] <Sid_> Ok. So we want to try to get some things designed...
[21:38] <Sid_> Deviating from my meeting plan... David, Sandra, what skills do you have related to this stuff?
[21:38] <_Dave_> The schema import and ER diagram?
[21:38] <SandraFaust> I worked with various DB
[21:39] <_Dave_> I've only had limited database exposure. Some limited SQL queries, etc.
[21:39] <Sid_> Ok. Java?
[21:39] <SandraFaust> Haven't done Java, sorry, did bunch client/server (UI ) stuff
[21:39] <_Dave_> Some, but it's similar enough to C++
[21:39] <abhaysathe> Er diagram is the hairy one, guys
[21:39] <Sid_> =) Well, maybe to some people...
[21:40] <Sid_> (similarity to C I mean)
[21:40] <_Dave_> Are we standardizing on a particular java compiler?
[21:40] <_Ross> 1.4??!!!
[21:40] <Sid_> I think I'll put up the role signup sheet again, for Elaboration this time.
[21:40] <Sid_> We can go with 1.4, since it's been out for awhile now. Any objections?
[21:41] <abhaysathe> works for me
[21:41] <SandraFaust> when the time comes, you'll need to tell us where to get it from and some good java references would be helpful
[21:41] <Sid_> And I don't see issues with choosing one compiler or another. That's more the Tools guy's *points at Ross* domain.
[21:41] <_Ross> Done! I'll send it out tomorrow morning
[21:41] <Sid_> Ok. That's what you can do then. Study up on Java.
[21:41] <abhaysathe> 30 md dnload from java.sun.com :)
[21:41] <_Ross> mmm.... javadocs.....
[21:42] <brians> bookstore.
[21:42] <Sid_> I'll get some training info on that on the site.
[21:42] <SandraFaust> i have broadband :) 30mb is not a big deal :)
[21:42] <Sid_> Generally, for stuff to do in the next few days is just to keep updating the documents that've been made.
[21:43] <brians> and work on your book reports!!
[21:43] <Sid_> I'll get a list of new documents that will need to be made and roles later this week. Say, by Thursday night.
[21:43] <SandraFaust> Well, Ross, send me and Brian email with version, where to get them, and references, and we'll put the on the site under FAQ
[21:44] <_Ross> easy enough will do
[21:44] <brians> ross, what tools are we using or just notepad and the compiler??
[21:44] <abhaysathe> vi lovers' anyone ?
[21:44] <Sid_> =)
[21:44] <_Ross> I'd highly highly highly recommend emacs
[21:45] <Sid_> Ross likes emacs. You can use notepad if you really want...
[21:45] <_Ross> though I do give crazy props for vi people
[21:45] <brians> i recommend notepad and ftp
[21:45] <_Dave_> Who will be setting up coding standards?
[21:45] <_Ross> (though vi advocates usually have prostate problems)
[21:45] <abhaysathe> cough.. :)
[21:45] <Sid_> Ross is our CM dude.
[21:46] <Sid_> So he's writing up the coding standards too.
[21:46] <_Ross> I'll handle that (busy week comming up). Basically we're following the standard java coding principles
[21:46] <brians> if it compiles then its standard??
[21:46] <SandraFaust> which are? :)
[21:46] <_Ross> Rational actually states them nicely, I'll come out with a "for dummies" version
[21:47] <Sid_> Rational has coding standards?
[21:47] <SandraFaust> now, I'm dummy. ;)
[21:47] <_Ross> yup. Rational calls for lots of documentation :)(
[21:47] <Sid_> Bah... Too bad they can't make good software with their fancy process...
[21:47] <_Ross> Rational has a link to a sample java coding standard
[21:48] <brians> we have the Rational Robot at work
[21:48] <_Ross> do the coding standards need to be in a formal doc???
[21:48] <Sid_> Hmm. With all the other ones that you need to do, Ross, and since it's already mostly written
[21:48] <abhaysathe> is coding standards part of constrction phase?
[21:48] <Sid_> I'm going to say 'no', just so we can get it available for everyone.
[21:49] <Sid_> Coding standards should be setup now.
[21:49] <Sid_> Because we need to have an architectural prototype done by the end of Elaboration.
[21:49] <brians> i thought we were a CMM level 1 shop, do we need coding standards?
[21:49] <Sid_> If we follow RUP, we're CMM level 3. =)
[21:50] <brians> just kidding!!
[21:50] <Sid_> Hehe...
[21:50] <SandraFaust> was that no, or now, sid?
[21:50] <Sid_> now.
[21:50] <Sid_> Well, relatively 'now'
[21:50] <SandraFaust> :)
[21:51] <Sid_> Ok. In summary... Give me some time to think over the next few days. =)
[21:51] <Sid_> I'm moving on Wednesday to a new place, so I'm caught up with it.
[21:51] <Sid_> I invite everyone to submit comments on any of the documents to their respective authors.
[21:52] <SandraFaust> oh wow!
[21:52] <Sid_> Authors get to work on documents if there are edits.
[21:52] <Sid_> Additionally, Sandra can start looking for SQL files we can play with.
[21:52] <Sid_> And Ross gets to make lotsa more documents.
[21:53] <abhaysathe> more use cases ?
[21:53] <SandraFaust> Sure, I'll get something by the end of the week
[21:53] <Sid_> Brian will work on enlarging the use case list.
[21:53] <Sid_> Abhay, since you're officially a Sys analyst
[21:53] <_Ross> If anyone wants to write up more risks go right ahead
[21:53] <_Ross> follow the format that's already up there
[21:54] <Sid_> .... *thinks* One sec... lemme check something
[21:54] <SandraFaust> quitting jobs as solutins? ;)
[21:54] <_Ross> levity is a quality
[21:54] <SandraFaust> :)
[21:55] <_Ross> what can I say...I couldn't think of any other solutions....
[21:55] <Sid_> Well, lemme get back to you Abhay...
[21:55] <_Ross> I guess we could hire a contractoro
[21:55] <Sid_> We need a Use Case list that's prioritized (with the Why's).
[21:55] <SandraFaust> LOL
[21:55] <abhaysathe> will do that
[21:55] <Sid_> I thought that might be the Use Case Package doc, but I couldn't find it in the templates this last minute...
[21:56] <Sid_> But that'll require you to work with Brian, Abhay, to come up with that list, ok?
[21:56] <SandraFaust> I'm already very nomadc job wise anyway ;)
[21:56] <abhaysathe> OK. my eval of RUP only shows html docs
[21:57] <Sid_> Alright... Everyone feel sorta warm and fuzzy about what you will do this week?
[21:57] <brians> very!!
[21:57] <Sid_> Questions?
[21:57] <_Ross> no...
[21:57] <SandraFaust> more fuzzy than warm, but that's ok ;)
[21:57] <_Dave_> no..
[21:57] <SandraFaust> no
[21:57] <jiamei> so basically we have 1.5 month to finish elarotion, how much coding are we going to do in the elaboration?
[21:57] <abhaysathe> i get to prioritize use cases, and ?
[21:57] <_Ross> not warm or fuzy
[21:57] <brians> michigan, burr!!
[21:58] <Sid_> Before you can prioritize them Abhay you and Brian need to come up with the sea level list.
[21:58] <SandraFaust> :)
[21:58] <abhaysathe> ok
[21:58] <SandraFaust> snow coming at the end of week ;)
[21:58] <Sid_> Once Ross gets the architecture diagrammed out, we can start implementing a skeleton of it.
[21:58] <abhaysathe> try colorado
[21:59] <_Dave_> Colorado is nice.
[21:59] <SandraFaust> yes, i love the climate there!
[21:59] <Sid_> For the end of Elaboration, Ihave marked that we'll have some sort of runnable system.
[21:59] <brians> i will be brimming with sea level use cases from that architecture diagram!!
[21:59] <Sid_> =)
[21:59] <abhaysathe> allright brian. will work wit you
[22:00] <brians> ok
[22:00] <Sid_> Ok. That's all I can think of for right now.
[22:00] <Sid_> We're done. Thanks for coming everyone.
[22:00] <Sid_> ------------------------------------------------